tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post6886348171313686192..comments2024-01-04T09:23:45.843-05:00Comments on Watching the Lights Go Out: More on Not Being Fed When You Can’t Feed YourselfDavid Hilfiker http://www.blogger.com/profile/00479949692410414480noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-77609538139493749962014-07-28T20:54:55.825-04:002014-07-28T20:54:55.825-04:00These are very difficult questions that must be wo...These are very difficult questions that must be worked out (in each unique situation) together between the dying person and his/her caregivers. I would suggest, however, that withholding food and water at the dying person's (previous) request is not to "stop caring." It might be the most caring thing you could do.<br />David Hilfiker https://www.blogger.com/profile/00479949692410414480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-64534328146668546832014-07-24T10:19:46.443-04:002014-07-24T10:19:46.443-04:00Thank you for this post. I feel talking through t...Thank you for this post. I feel talking through these issues is good information for your doctor and loved ones and care givers. No antibiotics. No tubes etc. But asking another to withhold care…… hmmmmmm I wonder if it’s ever OK to ask someone to stop caring. I feel not. Won’t the eating and drinking decrease naturally? The pain medicines would provide comfort. I do not want to burden those around me with the guilt of what I would have wanted. Things happen, changes, things come up. Time will work its magic. I waffle at times on the subject. But I still question the demand this puts on another human being. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-86687680165081098032014-06-30T20:29:24.478-04:002014-06-30T20:29:24.478-04:00Here is a link to an article on hand feeding in pa...Here is a link to an article on hand feeding in patients with advanced dementia from Annals of Long Term Care:<br />http://www.annalsoflongtermcare.com/article/doing-right-thing<br /><br />Here is a link to the accompanying editorial:<br />http://www.annalsoflongtermcare.com/article/ending-hand-feeding-patients-advanced-cognitive-decline-what-%E2%80%9Cdoing-right-thing%E2%80%9D<br /><br />I seem to remember a poll done at the time, but cannot find a trace of it. <br /><br />People smarter than I am seem to frame the discussion as about whether or not hand feeding is an "ordinary measure" like clean linens that is obligatory or an "extra-ordinary measure" like antibiotics that is optional and can be refused. It seems to me that in advanced dementia if the person has made their wishes clear (ideally explicitly in the form of an advanced directive or similar document, but not necessarily), that hand feeding is not required and, in fact, if the person does not want it, should be forbidden. I think this will become a more and more active area of debate in our society as the boomers age.<br /><br />Unrelatedly, I have been a long time lurker here as well as a reader of your books dating back to *my* med school days. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences over the years. They have immeasurably enriched my life and made me a better doc and person. Thank you.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858255590115721784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-24609539926441311722014-06-13T16:07:57.702-04:002014-06-13T16:07:57.702-04:00Such a loaded topic. As my mother's POA, I fin...Such a loaded topic. As my mother's POA, I finally allowed hourly morphine and thereby no food or water. It was such a long struggle getting to that point, but as much as I miss her demented, cancer-ridden soul... I feel it was the Right thing and was supported by hospice and her "home".gettingoldgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17014211738099734908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-16743660925782278432014-06-10T18:41:02.109-04:002014-06-10T18:41:02.109-04:00Your feelings in this case are of primary importan...Your feelings in this case are of primary importance. If you feel as if it would be "murdering her," of course you should NOT do it. If you and your mother had explicitly talked about this eventuality and she had said she didn't want to be fed, then, in my opinion, you would have had the responsibility either to agree to follow her desires or pass responsibility for her care on to someone who could. But you didn't have that explicit conversation, and it's not fair for ANYONE to feel guilty (or be made to feel guilty) for their own spiritual and/or moral sense. In my opinion, you made the right decision, regardless of what your mother MIGHT have wanted. (And just to state the obvious, your mother is most likely oblivious to the impact of your decision BY this time, so you're not really forcing her to undergo undue suffering.David Hilfiker https://www.blogger.com/profile/00479949692410414480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-67276025116486264402014-06-10T18:28:50.369-04:002014-06-10T18:28:50.369-04:00Despite the rapidly evolving ethical, spiritual, a...Despite the rapidly evolving ethical, spiritual, and legal standards in end-of-life care, I'm sure there will be relatives who object, doctors who won't attend, and nursing homes that won't allow it. I can't blame the judges; in most cases the case law has not been well established and their responsibility is to judge on the basis of the law not on the basis of their own ethical precepts. <br />Ultimately, then, it's still the case that people who make these kinds of decisions about end-of-life care must take all the appropriate legal steps, talk through the issues thoroughly with any relatives close enough to cause trouble, review their desires with their physician (and get his or her assent to stay with the care) and find institutions that will cooperate (or at least let you take the dying patient home).David Hilfiker https://www.blogger.com/profile/00479949692410414480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-19483071361642317932014-06-10T14:44:12.453-04:002014-06-10T14:44:12.453-04:00Thank you for your reply. I guess I do have the po...Thank you for your reply. I guess I do have the power to make that decision—and my mother trusted my to make it for her. But at this point, I couldn't bring myself to stop feeding her. I feel like it would be murdering her—in spite of knowing she would want me to. Would I ask my daughter to do the same for me? Its a lot to ask of someone. There are no easy answers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-43630945930201585762014-06-10T12:03:11.715-04:002014-06-10T12:03:11.715-04:00The whole issue of refusing and withholding food a...The whole issue of refusing and withholding food and water is very complicated. Here in Canada a family took a case to court because staff (in a religion-based facility) continued to spoon-feed their mother who had made a living will in advance of her decline. <br /><br />One argument was that the mother continued to open her mouth to receive food when a soon was placed on her lips and closed her mouth when she was "full." She had, therefore, changed her "mind." Though this is likely a body reflex and would not have matched the mother's original intent. <br /><br />Another argument the facility used was that the family, then, should take responsibility for the mother and "watch her die from their neglect" themselves. <br /><br />In addition, the facility was not about to withhold "basic care" and put itself at risk for criminal charges. It wouldn't be out of the question to think that families who did take responsibility themselves in those final days could face criminal charges as well as the guilt that Anonymous describes. <br /><br />Ultimately, the Canadian woman's wishes were denied in court. news.nationalpost.com/.../alzheimers-patients-desire-to-die-denie... <br /><br />phillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13503702913531713932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-49699251569271987182014-06-09T23:33:50.147-04:002014-06-09T23:33:50.147-04:00Thank you. Thank you. Thank you - for this install...Thank you. Thank you. Thank you - for this installment, for your previous entry and for all the people who commented upon it. I have been plagued by guilt for over 30 years for blindly following my mother's instructions that there be no extraordinary measures and No IV. Without food and without fluids, it took my mother well over a week to die, and I have been beating myself up ever since.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-3628443550646037912014-06-09T19:59:33.438-04:002014-06-09T19:59:33.438-04:00I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that as...I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that as your mother's Power of Attorney (POA) you have wide latitude to make decisions for your mother, especially if you believe they are what your mother would have chosen had she known of the options. Unless there is something in her advance directive that explicitly declines not feeding her, it would seem to me that you could make that decision for her. You could at least check it out.David Hilfiker https://www.blogger.com/profile/00479949692410414480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6426202096598051070.post-79875352069025898422014-06-09T17:13:48.714-04:002014-06-09T17:13:48.714-04:00My mother, 79, is in an excellent board and care h...My mother, 79, is in an excellent board and care home in California. She has been well taken care of and feed by others 3 times a day for the last 4 years. (She has had dementia for 10 years and can do nothing for herself, not even speak). She would not have wanted this life. But her advance directive only states no feeding tube. So her life has been artificially prolonged. As her daughter, and her POA, I'm not sure what to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com